|
Post by Redforever on Aug 8, 2012 12:12:39 GMT 10
The ecoboost Falcon unfortunately continues to be an absolute failure in the sales charts as well. Even going back to February and counting early press vehicle registrations, Ford have only sold 408 ecoboost Falcons to the 30th June.
With production down to under a thousand units a month Ford must be losing money on every Falcon it builds. It recently posted a $200 million plus loss and there's very little to suggest that this will change in the near future. And this was after tens of million in Government funding.
As far as I'm aware the ecoboost was the last major engineering update Ford had planned for the Falcon with only a mild facelift still to come in 2014. Unfortunately the sales slide is set to continue for the Falcon. With new Camry and Aurion models just released and a major refresh of the VE Commodore with all new interior due next year these are likely to be the final nails in the Falcon cofin.
So Ford fans, if you have the money, buy a Falcon while you can because sooner rather than later you'll only see them in used car yards....
Source AA 1503
|
|
|
Post by Raptorman on Sept 17, 2012 10:52:38 GMT 10
When the Falcon dies so will the Commodore. What will Holden fans support then as I can't imagine that the Cruze will have the same appeal?
|
|
|
Post by Redforever on Sept 17, 2012 12:30:08 GMT 10
When the Falcon dies so will the Commodore. What will Holden fans support then as I can't imagine that the Cruze will have the same appeal? The commodore is no doubt under threat and it's sales continue to fall, however everything is relative. The commodore still outsells the Falcon better than 3 to 1 and will finish the calendar year comfortably as a top 3 seller and probably around the 40 000 to 45 000 unit mark. The Falcon on the other hand is struggling around the bottom of the top 20 and will struggle to sell 14 000 cars this year. Its worst year on record. Further, Holden have a heavily updated model coming out next year whilst Ford really have nothing planned for the Falcon. There is no V8 Falcon and hasn't been for several years now and it is unlikely that we will see a Ford badged version ever again. There is no Falcon wagon or long wheelbase product to supplement sales and with Prodrive walking away from FPV the righting is not only on the wall it is lit up in bright neon. The Ecoboost 4cylinder Falcon has been an unmitigated sales disaster and with no planned updates and no money to invest in it, the falcon is finished. The commodore is also struggling, but as I said everything is relative and Holden has a strong model line up of wagon, ute sedan and long wheelbase as well as very strong sales of higher profit models such as SS and Calais. FPR bugger around making tiny changes to the GT when the whole world is screaming for a GT HO and their asnwer is another R spec version with wider rear tyres and new shocks. I mean seriously FPV, you are a laughing stock and your race team will whither and fade away into history without a single championship or Bathurst win. Your racing legacy is a joke and Holden fans will laugh the loudest and hardest when you dissappear...
|
|
100%FORD
V8 Development Driver
Posts: 342
|
Post by 100%FORD on Sept 17, 2012 15:30:39 GMT 10
When the Falcon dies so will the Commodore. What will Holden fans support then as I can't imagine that the Cruze will have the same appeal? The commodore is no doubt under threat and it's sales continue to fall, however everything is relative. The commodore still outsells the Falcon better than 3 to 1 and will finish the calendar year comfortably as a top 3 seller and probably around the 40 000 to 45 000 unit mark. The Falcon on the other hand is struggling around the bottom of the top 20 and will struggle to sell 14 000 cars this year. Its worst year on record. Further, Holden have a heavily updated model coming out next year whilst Ford really have nothing planned for the Falcon. There is no V8 Falcon and hasn't been for several years now and it is unlikely that we will see a Ford badged version ever again. There is no Falcon wagon or long wheelbase product to supplement sales and with Prodrive walking away from FPV the righting is not only on the wall it is lit up in bright neon. The Ecoboost 4cylinder Falcon has been an unmitigated sales disaster and with no planned updates and no money to invest in it, the falcon is finished. The commodore is also struggling, but as I said everything is relative and Holden has a strong model line up of wagon, ute sedan and long wheelbase as well as very strong sales of higher profit models such as SS and Calais. FPR bugger around making tiny changes to the GT when the whole world is screaming for a GT HO and their asnwer is another R spec version with wider rear tyres and new shocks. I mean seriously FPV, you are a laughing stock and your race team will whither and fade away into history without a single championship or Bathurst win. Your racing legacy is a joke and Holden fans will laugh the loudest and hardest when you dissappear... Im glad the majority of Holden fans on here are not as delusional with statistics and facts as you are ;D
|
|
|
Post by Redforever on Sept 17, 2012 15:37:28 GMT 10
The commodore is no doubt under threat and it's sales continue to fall, however everything is relative. The commodore still outsells the Falcon better than 3 to 1 and will finish the calendar year comfortably as a top 3 seller and probably around the 40 000 to 45 000 unit mark. The Falcon on the other hand is struggling around the bottom of the top 20 and will struggle to sell 14 000 cars this year. Its worst year on record. Further, Holden have a heavily updated model coming out next year whilst Ford really have nothing planned for the Falcon. There is no V8 Falcon and hasn't been for several years now and it is unlikely that we will see a Ford badged version ever again. There is no Falcon wagon or long wheelbase product to supplement sales and with Prodrive walking away from FPV the righting is not only on the wall it is lit up in bright neon. The Ecoboost 4cylinder Falcon has been an unmitigated sales disaster and with no planned updates and no money to invest in it, the falcon is finished. The commodore is also struggling, but as I said everything is relative and Holden has a strong model line up of wagon, ute sedan and long wheelbase as well as very strong sales of higher profit models such as SS and Calais. FPR bugger around making tiny changes to the GT when the whole world is screaming for a GT HO and their asnwer is another R spec version with wider rear tyres and new shocks. I mean seriously FPV, you are a laughing stock and your race team will whither and fade away into history without a single championship or Bathurst win. Your racing legacy is a joke and Holden fans will laugh the loudest and hardest when you dissappear... Im glad the majority of Holden fans on here are not as delusional with statistics and facts as you are ;D My stats and facts are accurate. If you disagree, prove me wrong with FACT...
|
|
100%FORD
V8 Development Driver
Posts: 342
|
Post by 100%FORD on Sept 17, 2012 16:12:21 GMT 10
Im glad the majority of Holden fans on here are not as delusional with statistics and facts as you are ;D My stats and facts are accurate. If you disagree, prove me wrong with FACT... Can you post links to prove them right Maybe Bundy can move it to the appropriate section, when you dont supply any links ill shoot holes in it, without going off topic
|
|
|
Post by Bundy on Sept 17, 2012 19:34:29 GMT 10
My stats and facts are accurate. If you disagree, prove me wrong with FACT... Can you post links to prove them right Maybe Bundy can move it to the appropriate section , when you dont supply any links ill shoot holes in it, without going off topic Done!
|
|
100%FORD
V8 Development Driver
Posts: 342
|
Post by 100%FORD on Sept 17, 2012 19:55:13 GMT 10
Can you post links to prove them right Maybe Bundy can move it to the appropriate section , when you dont supply any links ill shoot holes in it, without going off topic Done! Thanks Bundy, i eagerly await redforevers links
|
|
|
Post by Bundy on Sept 17, 2012 20:50:06 GMT 10
Done! Thanks Bundy, i eagerly await redforevers links No problem...however you may be waiting on those links, as much of what he has had to say isn't all that controversial and is fact that you, I and even he has probably picked up on from different sources over the recent time and just from general knowledge.
|
|
|
Post by Redforever on Sept 18, 2012 12:25:19 GMT 10
|
|
100%FORD
V8 Development Driver
Posts: 342
|
Post by 100%FORD on Sept 18, 2012 14:00:44 GMT 10
Year-to-date, the Commodore is down 26.8 per cent (from 28,265 to 20,694) and you predict 45000, thats 24306 to be sold in 4 months even in your world thats dreaming. Commodore to finish in the top 3 but are currently in 5th nearly 4500 behind 3rd. Commodore/Falcon sales are closer to 2 to 1, than your over 3 to 1 figure quoted. Ford have an updated Falcon in 2014. Territory was the replacement for the Falcon wagon. You havnt read the reviews or changes thats gone into the fastest production Falcon. As for FPV being a laughing stock you havnt seen the HSV Cruise reviews then. By the way the Commodores gone come 2017/18, thats only around 12 years as being fully Australian Designed and Engineered thats short lived and very sad
|
|
|
Post by Bundy on Sept 18, 2012 22:06:19 GMT 10
Year-to-date, the Commodore is down 26.8 per cent (from 28,265 to 20,694) and you predict 45000, thats 24306 to be sold in 4 months even in your world thats dreaming. I'll be interested to see whose prediction comes true... With the way it is trending, the Commodore will probably get that 3 to 1...still I remember a year or so back when us Holden fans were spruiking the 2 to 1 advantage...so it shows just how far the Falcon has fell No fan here of HSV's choice to bring out its own variant of the Cruze... **** idea if you ask me.
|
|
|
Post by Redforever on Sept 19, 2012 12:02:24 GMT 10
Year-to-date, the Commodore is down 26.8 per cent (from 28,265 to 20,694) and you predict 45000, thats 24306 to be sold in 4 months even in your world thats dreaming. Commodore to finish in the top 3 but are currently in 5th nearly 4500 behind 3rd. Commodore/Falcon sales are closer to 2 to 1, than your over 3 to 1 figure quoted. Ford have an updated Falcon in 2014. Territory was the replacement for the Falcon wagon. You havnt read the reviews or changes thats gone into the fastest production Falcon. As for FPV being a laughing stock you havnt seen the HSV Cruise reviews then. By the way the Commodores gone come 2017/18, thats only around 12 years as being fully Australian Designed and Engineered thats short lived and very sad The Commodore figure you qouted doesn't include utes or long wheelbase variants or exports. Ad those in and the figures are quite achievable. When you quote a reduction in sales as a % you have to remember the Commodore is coming from a much higher base of sales and as a result the decline in the large car market effects the Holden more because it is a larger slice of that market. As for FPV, well let's look at the facts (again). They have never looked like toppling HSV in terms of sales. FPV laboured with the 5.4 lump for far too long and continue to offer very little outside differentiation in their product. As a result again HSV outsell FPV by a factor of virtually 3 to 1. I think that the 'new' R Spec GT is a great car, but it's what the GT should have been from day one and the current Miami engine is also a great unit, but FPV should have had this engine or similar for at least the last 5 years. In terms of visual difference the latest FPV GT is really just a paint and sticker job. Why not pump it up to 350KW's, the motor can do that with a quick tune and uprated exhaust. It's taken FPV 8 years to put decent rear tyre widths on their product. Why 8 years? The very company that won the tender to produce the hot Falcons - an international motorsport conglomorate mind you, has now walked away from Ford and FPV and that doesn't ring any alarm bells for you? Please send me the link to this 'updated' Falcon claim also if you can. Let's hope it's more than the last update which appeared to be a grill insert and the Territory's touch screen... Further the Wagon died because Ford pulled the same old trick that they have pulled with any model that they wanted to finish off. They let it whither on the vine with little development and watched it's sales decline to the point where they could justify killing it off. They did it with the Wagon and XR8 and the Fairlane LTD twins and they are doing it again with the Falcon. Back when the Territory was released in 2004 Ford had only just spent time and money updating the Wagon with BA front end and interior. If the Territory was meant to replace it then why did they bother doing anything to the wagon and then updating it again with a series three a couple of years later? Granted these changes were small and never enough to make it compete with Holden's properly engineered model, but if Ford's plan was to replace it with Territory why spend money on the wagon at all and why continue to sell it after the Territory had established itself in the market? Let's look back over Ford's vehicle report card over the past decade. On the back of the hugely succesful BA redesign they brought out a car that to most punters looked almost identical to the model it replaced in the FG. Slapped two new guards, bonnet, lights and bumper on the AU wagon and left the rest of what was an update of the AU wagon from a decade ealrier virtually untouched. Carried over as much of the previous Fairlane as they could with minimal BA changes but didn't even give the flagship Ford it's own tail light or interior design. Released the Territory which was and is an excellent SUV but never bothered with a V8 version which blokes who towed boats would have bought in huge numbers and no doubt paid a premium for as there was no real competition under $100k that offered the size and practicality of a V8 SUV. Took 7 years to put a diesel in it when that market is well over 50% desiel. Dropped the XR8 despite the fact that it was a very succesful and profitable part of the Falcon line up. How well did Ford read the market? Currently 1 in 4 Commodores sold is a V8 version. So now we find ourselves in a position where the Falcon is selling in tiny numbers and like they have done time and time again Ford will execute this icon and blame dwindling sales despite the fact that they have misread the market, under invested in the model, marketed it appalingly and have ultimately let their greatest rivals win. What was once a battle in the showroom and on the track is now not even a contest. The Falcon is finished and Ford killed it. It's that simple....
|
|
|
Post by Raptorman on Sept 19, 2012 22:45:48 GMT 10
If you want a performance FPV, you but the GT/GS, if you want to buy a performance Ford, you buy the XR6 Turbo, which myst be a great performance sedan as there are quite alot around.
|
|
|
Post by Redforever on Sept 20, 2012 9:10:27 GMT 10
If you want a performance FPV, you but the GT/GS, if you want to buy a performance Ford, you buy the XR6 Turbo, which myst be a great performance sedan as there are quite alot around. Clearly not many people are buying any of them. Not much point supporting V8 Supercars when you don't offer a performance V8 sedan....
|
|
|
Post by Raptorman on Sept 25, 2012 9:13:25 GMT 10
If V8 sponsorship is based on whether or not companies sell heaps of V8 engined cars, then why hasn't Toyota entered the series with a V8 Landcrusier?
|
|
|
Post by Bundy on Sept 25, 2012 11:13:15 GMT 10
If V8 sponsorship is based on whether or not companies sell heaps of V8 engined cars, then why hasn't Toyota entered the series with a V8 Landcrusier? I think more to the point why hasn't Toyota entered the V8 fray given its status as no 1 car seller...I don't think new manufacturers should necessarily equate venturing into V8s will improve only their large/family car sales but will give them a lift across the board which is probably what Nissan are counting on...
|
|
|
Post by Redforever on Oct 9, 2012 15:02:44 GMT 10
If V8 sponsorship is based on whether or not companies sell heaps of V8 engined cars, then why hasn't Toyota entered the series with a V8 Landcrusier? I think more to the point why hasn't Toyota entered the V8 fray given its status as no 1 car seller...I don't think new manufacturers should necessarily equate venturing into V8s will improve only their large/family car sales but will give them a lift across the board which is probably what Nissan are counting on... I think the issue for Toyota is that motorsport really has very little to offer their brand in Australia.They would probably argue that their involvement with the AFL and NRL give them the middle class demographic positioning that they desire and any involvement with V8Supercar would be simply throwing good money after already good money at the same market. Toyota in Australia have long been a brand where passion and tribal support has never really entered into their sales and marketing strategy. And lets be honest, they have done extremely well selling inoffensive and reliable cars to inoffensive and reliable people. I'm sure many racing teams have spent plenty of time and money over the years trying to convince Toyota otherwise with zero success. If a busines case could be put to the Japanese giant that would demonstrate the added sales or value they would gain in supporting V8's, then I'm sure they would consider it. But nobody has to date.
|
|
|
Post by Bundy on Oct 10, 2012 9:59:59 GMT 10
I think more to the point why hasn't Toyota entered the V8 fray given its status as no 1 car seller...I don't think new manufacturers should necessarily equate venturing into V8s will improve only their large/family car sales but will give them a lift across the board which is probably what Nissan are counting on... I think the issue for Toyota is that motorsport really has very little to offer their brand in Australia.They would probably argue that their involvement with the AFL and NRL give them the middle class demographic positioning that they desire and any involvement with V8Supercar would be simply throwing good money after already good money at the same market. Toyota in Australia have long been a brand where passion and tribal support has never really entered into their sales and marketing strategy. And lets be honest, they have done extremely well selling inoffensive and reliable cars to inoffensive and reliable people. I'm sure many racing teams have spent plenty of time and money over the years trying to convince Toyota otherwise with zero success. If a busines case could be put to the Japanese giant that would demonstrate the added sales or value they would gain in supporting V8's, then I'm sure they would consider it. But nobody has to date. I see your point that Toyota aren't really missing out on any of the market or potential markets with their extensive sponsorship of the footy codes as usually anyone of the codes' fans cross over to watch the V8s as well. But I think they may just adopt that 'wait and see' approach as I am sure they will pay acute attention to Nissan's involvement in particular next year and see whether that gives them any boost to their sales that they can attribute to this V8s involvement because if it does and the business case stacks up, they may very well be on the grid in 2014 (along with another one or two manufacturers). It will become more and more like the BTCC every year... But this is venturing way off-topic, so we better get back to the plight of the falcon which is to say that any updated version will need to have on it some mind-blowing features if they are to make a dent in the family car segment again as I am betting that the VF commodore whilst not being as popular as the VE when it was initially released, will still command respectable sales figures...
|
|
100%FORD
V8 Development Driver
Posts: 342
|
Post by 100%FORD on Jan 10, 2013 19:15:48 GMT 10
But if we apply the Ford corporate logic to this livery, how will Ford fans know it's a Falcon? The predominant colour is black not blue. Won't the fans be confused? Just goes to show what an absolute disgrace the whole Triple8 red car garbage was. Ford have cost themselves multiple championships and Bathurst wins on the back of some corporate dribble about having their factory supported cars painted blue. What an absolute joke. This FPR scheme looks ok. There's not a lot you can do when your major sponsor's colours are Black, with some Red, White and Blue and in the logo and your minor sponsors are yellow and frog green!!!!! I truly think Ford are desperate now to put as little funding into V8s as possible where they are now happy to accept a predominately non-blue livery to appease the main sponsor. Also goes to your argument that they are looking for a way out in the not to distant future that they can't be bothered anymore sticking to their predominately blue livery policy... This is why Ford didnt go bankrupt and GM did, GM even went to Ford with their tail between their legs wanting to merge and to top it off GM have admitted they are years behind Ford in develeopment and profitability!!!!!!! But yet Ford doesnt know what there doing Back to the future of V8SC's Ford v Chev etc is a more realistic proposition, especially if the Liberal paty wins the next election, No government funding, No Holden, This has actually been stated by Holden
|
|